INTERVIEW WITHLAWRENCE of men, we are trying to get DALY GENERAL SECRETARY OF THE NATIONAL UNION CONDUCTED AT THE NUM HEADQUARTERS IN EUSTON, LONDON ON OCTOBER 7 JOHNS: And you would tell BY STEPHEN JOHNS

that any union involved In a battle with the government would have the full support of the TUC and the member unions.

If the Tories intervene - in your strike with troops, for example, what kind of support will you ask the trade unions for? Will this Include requests for sympathetic action?

DALY: In the first place it would be quite impractical for the government to intervene with troops. They simply could not do the kind of jobs that miners, particularly • on the power-loading machines, have to do.

But if Heath used other measures against the miners to break the strike, there is no question that it would intensify the determination of the men and those in the trades union movement who are supporting them, to resist, and fight all the way to victory.

JOHNS: If a situation Ilke this did emerge I take it therefore you would go to the TUC and ask for sympathetic strike action?

DALY: Obviously we cannot make an official approach to the TUC until we know the result of the ballot. But if it is for the strike, as I hope, l would hope that our executive would agree to approach the TUC Congress for their fullest support.

JOHNS: I don't want to labour this point, but would you ask directly for sympathetic strike action If the government did Intervene?

DALY: We certainly would be asking for sympathetic action. Verbal militancy is not enough. It's action we want.

JOHNS: You have already rejected arbitration with Lord Robens through an Independent panel. Does this mean you will keep out on strike until the demand is met in full?

WIll there be any danger of a retreat on the claim, like there was in the recent docks and GKN-Sankey disputes? DALY: There is certainly every indication on the coalfields that if the men come out they will stay out until the claim is met in full on the minimum wage demand. I THE SOCIALIST LABOUR LEAGUE! Fill in the form below and SECRETARY, SOCIALIST 186A CLAPHAM HIGH ST, Name ...

Address JOHNS: Does this countries as well?

DALY: Equally.

CLOSURES JOHNS: Already the Secretary of State at the Ministry of Technology, Sir John Eden has stated that closures will be Increased if productivity in the mines does not rise. This threat will obvlously be used In the course of the strike.

How will you counter this threat, and in the future will you lobby on your national executive to fight closures by national strike action?

like information about send to NATIONAL LABOUR LEAGUE, LONDON, SW4. DALY: I would hope to convince the national executive that, if, for example, 1,000 miners were told that you will now be redundant because of the strike, they should encourage our members to take further strike action to resist pit closures quite definitely.

I made this clear to Sir John Eden when we met in August negotiating the financial reconstruction of the industry.

We said then that we wanted removal of some of the interest burden from the industry and the return of some of the £1,000 millions stolen from the mining industry through subsidized coal during the first decade after JOHNS: Does this mean that In the future if the government announces a programme of pit closures you would take, what for you is a radical step, and back strikes against closures officlally?

DALY: Robens has said that he will close six or seven pits in the current six months because they are exhausted. And we don't oppose closures where a pit is exhausted.

But if they came along with a programme that went further than this, I am sure that there is such a mood of militancy developing among the men that the rank and file and other people in the union would compel official action.

JOHNS: And you would actively support this? IALY: Absolutely, I have een wishing for years that this rood would develop.

JOHNS: On the question of Interest payments, are you prepared to say in the case of a pit closure'We will not have this pit closed untll we have these Interest payments stopped; until this massive amount of money is returned to the Industry'.

DALY: We are pressing the government—we have had two meetings with them-for the removal of the interest burden and for the adoption of other measures to make the industry financially viable.

But officially we have not reached the stage you suggest.

But it is my view that we should stand up and say that until the miner and the industry get a square deal that we are not prepared to accept pit closures save where the pit is exhausted.

JOHNS: So you would then, Ilke to see the end of interest payments?

DALY: Absolutely. We have paid once again in the last financial year £37 million in interest payments. We have paid out hundreds of millions, including not only interest charges on loans to reconstruct the industry, but also the near £400 million that went in compensation to the old owners.

All this has been paid out the profits made by the miners and we are no longer prepared to tolerate this.

We have made it perfectly clear to Sir John Eden that unless measures are taken to assist the industry, to enable decent wages to be paid to miners, the forecasts of coal shortages for this winter will be insignificant with the shortages that would take place because the miners were determined to take strike action. THE OFFICIAL STRIKE JOHNS: In last year's unofficlal strike half the miners came out for higher rates for surface men, yet you did not call for this strike to be made official. You eventually told the men to go back. Why did you take this stand?

DALY: The constitution of the NUM includes in its rules a provision that there shall be no strike action without authority of the national executive and that there should be no strike without a ballot with two-thirds majority in tavour.

In those circumstances I had no power, and neither had the executive, to make the strike official.

The other thing is that not one area, including the Yorkshire area, which initiated the strike, called for official backing. This was for a wise reason that this would have required a special conference of the union which would have taken two weeks then a ballot which would have taken a further four or five weeks to complete.

This would have meant, therefore, the possibility of two months delay—in addition to the two weeks Yorkshire had been out-before a decision could have been reached. By that time the men, I believe, would have had suffered so much that many of them would have ' balloted against the strike.

Rather than see them dissipate their strength in • this way it was my view-which I did not, and never will, apologize for-that it was better they return after making their demonstration.

I have myself had to face similar situations when I worked underground at Glencraig coal mine for 25 years. You have to judge the time to come out.

You have made your protest, you may not have got everything you want, but you have also to gauge the position of your members and know when It 1s time to go back as a united body, which is all important.

The other thing was that I had discussions here with unofficial leaders from Yorkshire. Some of them honestly told me 'Lawrence, if you or someone can't get us off the hook and get the men back, get some sound reason for getting JOHNS: Are you against a polltical campaign which involves Industrial action to force the government to resign on this Issue?

STALINISM IN BRITAIN TROTSKYIST ANALYSIS VORKERS JOHNS: Finally Mr Daly, what do you think of the Workers Press. We have published as a dally now for one year and had Improved sales and techniques. We have criticized you often-please criticize us now If you wish.

DALY: I think typographically it is attractive. I think politically there are a few things that I disagree with, but I don't want to go into them at the moment-the important thing is to get together and start pushing.

I have noted over the years that the Workers Press and its predecessor "The Newsletter', have, every time they mentioned me, managed to portray me as some kind of left-talking revisionist.

I don't think we should go into this at the moment, but 1 am prepared to go into it with any of your members or supporters over a pint of beer sometime.

But I will say that despite that fact that I can't agree with a lot of what it says, I recognize the spirit behind the people who produce it and the objectives they are working for. Therefore in as much as the Workers Press is helping the miners-all power to its elbow.

JOHNS: Thank you Mr Daly.

We will be fighting alongside all the miners in their great coming battle. JUSITIOUT NEW PARK PUBLICATION

10.40 a.m. Time Machines. 11.40 Weatherman. 11.45 Grandstand: Saturday, October 10, 1970 PAGE THREE